Hi!
First of all, I read through the whole help section and some of my questions were resolved immediately, however, a lot of them are still open:
1. I would like to have a basic understanding of how the TCU works. Specifically, as far as every video I have seen and everything I have read about this TCU, it seems that it is pre programmed and all that needs to be done when in the car, is to do the adaptation.
However, as I have some limited knowledge in ECU and TCU calibration, and looking at the CAN receiving table, it seems that the TCU needs the torque information from the ECU. However, in this thread (https://forum.turbolamik.eu/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=64), Luki wrote: "If you have Emu installed then TCU needs TPS RPM and Mapsensor". Why does it not need Torque in this case? Is this ECU specific? I am using Emtron KV8.
So, how come that in every video the gear changes are soooooooooo beautifly smooth without torque? How does (does it at all?) torque reduction work if the TCU does not have torque information?
2. What happens if I have a wish for a higher rpm limit, other shifting points or further application altogether? Is there any help/support from anyone?
3. Since I have wired my whole car by myself and installed a CAN-Bus to have less wiring and better options for the future, I would like to know if the program switch can be done via CAN? I have a map selector on my steering wheel which changes maps of the ECU, so the best solution for me would be that the ECU sends a signal via CAN to the TCU to change settings. The same question goes for the steering wheel paddles - is it possible to have a CAN signal from the pedals to the TCU?
4. same as 2 but for the display. it would be nice to see the program used at the moment on the CAN bus.
5. Is there something like kickdown available? Since I have never driven a car with a 8hp I am asking myself, what if I am cruising in a high gear (7 or 8) at very low rpm and I want to accelerate aggresivly at some point and push the pedal to the metal. what is the gearbox able to do, in other words, how many gears will it downshift? use case: automatic mode
6. for me quite important as I am also using and PDM in the car: how much current is needed for the TCU and all of the solenoids? Are the solenoids driven by a high side driver and connected internally to GND or other way round?
This is all I can think of for now.
Thanks in advance!
BR
Robert
Few questions about the TCU
Re: Few questions about the TCU
1. The TCU out of the box is pre-configured according to the data specified in the order. In some time, there will be tutorials on how to configure the device, maybe then you will have to configure the device yourself.
TCU has self-adaptation, after some time driving it should learn the gearbox by itself. You can of course help by making it by hand. It should be remembered that the gearbox, after installing it in the car and refilling with oil, must go about 10-30 kilometers to start working fully as it should,
1B. If the ECU sends a torque signal like the serial ECU then it can be used to control the gearbox.
If this is not the case, the TCU has the appropriate inputs and the algorithm calculating the torque, then the TPS, RPM, MAP sensors must be connected, and the CAN bus is no longer needed then. ECUMASTER is not sending any torque signal, but it sends sensor signals so you can calculate the moment with the TCU algorithm without connecting additional sensors.
If you use a driver such as ms43, which was present in naturally aspirated engines, after installing the turbo, the torque signal is not correct, but all sensors are sent via the can bus, then you only need to connect the MAP sensor to measure the boost.
The torque signal is always used but can be obtained from the TCU in different ways.
2. If you want to change something in the operation of the Gearbox, you can configure everything yourself or with our help. The program and program installation instructions are available in the download and manual sections.
3.At the moment, you can do CAN paddles, but in a car in which they were serial CAN bus or ECUMASTER CAN. TCU is constantly being developed
4. Information about the operation of the gearbox and TCU are sent via CAN, so they can be displayed on any CAN display that can be configured, for example, ECUMASTER ADU
5.The Kickdown option is under development. It is now available in the trial version of the software.
The TCU calculates the revs after shifting and downshifts until the engine revs are as close to the "MAX rpm limit" as possible.
6. Selenoids are high side driven. pins 43-44-45 are connected internally with 73-74-75 to simplify the wiring.
The driver during normal operation does not exceed 7-10A, but it all depends on how loaded the optional AUX outputs are. The 15A fuse is quite sufficient. In addition, the TCU has a lot of security inside and you can even skip the fuse.
TCU has self-adaptation, after some time driving it should learn the gearbox by itself. You can of course help by making it by hand. It should be remembered that the gearbox, after installing it in the car and refilling with oil, must go about 10-30 kilometers to start working fully as it should,
1B. If the ECU sends a torque signal like the serial ECU then it can be used to control the gearbox.
If this is not the case, the TCU has the appropriate inputs and the algorithm calculating the torque, then the TPS, RPM, MAP sensors must be connected, and the CAN bus is no longer needed then. ECUMASTER is not sending any torque signal, but it sends sensor signals so you can calculate the moment with the TCU algorithm without connecting additional sensors.
If you use a driver such as ms43, which was present in naturally aspirated engines, after installing the turbo, the torque signal is not correct, but all sensors are sent via the can bus, then you only need to connect the MAP sensor to measure the boost.
The torque signal is always used but can be obtained from the TCU in different ways.
2. If you want to change something in the operation of the Gearbox, you can configure everything yourself or with our help. The program and program installation instructions are available in the download and manual sections.
3.At the moment, you can do CAN paddles, but in a car in which they were serial CAN bus or ECUMASTER CAN. TCU is constantly being developed
4. Information about the operation of the gearbox and TCU are sent via CAN, so they can be displayed on any CAN display that can be configured, for example, ECUMASTER ADU
5.The Kickdown option is under development. It is now available in the trial version of the software.
The TCU calculates the revs after shifting and downshifts until the engine revs are as close to the "MAX rpm limit" as possible.
6. Selenoids are high side driven. pins 43-44-45 are connected internally with 73-74-75 to simplify the wiring.
The driver during normal operation does not exceed 7-10A, but it all depends on how loaded the optional AUX outputs are. The 15A fuse is quite sufficient. In addition, the TCU has a lot of security inside and you can even skip the fuse.
Re: Few questions about the TCU
Wow, I am amazed on how quick this was answered and especially about how professional the answers was given.
Thanks very much for the extremely detailed explanations.
For point 3 I would like to elaborate some more, as my question was not asked properly.
a) In the CAN description I cannot find the output for the "program used" (instead of the LCD display) and the input via CAN for changing the "program" (instead of the provided rotary switch). Is this planed in the future or is it already available but not on the CAN list yet?
b) Do You have an Information about the CAN data for the original BMW shifters? These are also not included in the CAN list
Additional question regarding CAN document:
The document shows transmission of IDs 640 and 641 but doesn't define what is transmitted on those. Is this still in work or just some information which is not relevant to the end customer?
Thanks again very much!
BR
Robert
Thanks very much for the extremely detailed explanations.
For point 3 I would like to elaborate some more, as my question was not asked properly.
a) In the CAN description I cannot find the output for the "program used" (instead of the LCD display) and the input via CAN for changing the "program" (instead of the provided rotary switch). Is this planed in the future or is it already available but not on the CAN list yet?
b) Do You have an Information about the CAN data for the original BMW shifters? These are also not included in the CAN list
Additional question regarding CAN document:
The document shows transmission of IDs 640 and 641 but doesn't define what is transmitted on those. Is this still in work or just some information which is not relevant to the end customer?
Thanks again very much!
BR
Robert
Re: Few questions about the TCU
a) Information about the selected program is sent to H642, "CAN input" is currently not available.
b) BMW up to the e60 / e90 generation had analog or MUX paddles, NOT CAN. I don't know about the F series
c)640 and 641 are configurable in the TCU and you can choose what is to be sent on each of the frames:
0- OFF
1 to12- Analog 1 to 12
13- Oil Temp (0V-0C, 5V-200C)
14- Gear Target (R=0V; N=0,5V; 1=1V; 8=4,5V)
15- Gear Active (R=0V; N=0,5V; 1=1V; 8=4,5V)
16- Program Selector (0.5V-4,0V)
17- TQ Reduction Table Value (5V=100%, 0V=0%)
18- TQ Reduction Table Value (0V=100%, 5V=0%)
19- Error Code Active
20-Gearbox Slipt
21-Lockup Slipt
22-Transbrake activation
b) BMW up to the e60 / e90 generation had analog or MUX paddles, NOT CAN. I don't know about the F series
c)640 and 641 are configurable in the TCU and you can choose what is to be sent on each of the frames:
0- OFF
1 to12- Analog 1 to 12
13- Oil Temp (0V-0C, 5V-200C)
14- Gear Target (R=0V; N=0,5V; 1=1V; 8=4,5V)
15- Gear Active (R=0V; N=0,5V; 1=1V; 8=4,5V)
16- Program Selector (0.5V-4,0V)
17- TQ Reduction Table Value (5V=100%, 0V=0%)
18- TQ Reduction Table Value (0V=100%, 5V=0%)
19- Error Code Active
20-Gearbox Slipt
21-Lockup Slipt
22-Transbrake activation
Re: Few questions about the TCU
Well, thanks again, this helped in understanding.
I had a little learning yesterday by scrolling to the SW and clicking around. I saw the selected program CAN input is obviously planned so I'm already happy. Until I start to implement this TCU and gearbox into my car, a few more months will have to pass by.
For b) I looked it up before you've written the answer, found the same info. Also, I downloaded the EMU SW but wasn't able to find any Info on that. However, I had the idea to sniff out the CAN bus coming from the selector and give the paddles the same data so that it will not matter if you shift gears from the paddles or via selector.
In the meantime I had another questions raising up:
On a stock bmw, what happens if the selector is in Auto mode but you still try to shift via paddles?
How does the torque reduction work mechanically since there is no signal sent to the ECU to reduce the ignition or injection? Is it mechanically reduced somehow?
Thanks!
BR
RoB
I had a little learning yesterday by scrolling to the SW and clicking around. I saw the selected program CAN input is obviously planned so I'm already happy. Until I start to implement this TCU and gearbox into my car, a few more months will have to pass by.
For b) I looked it up before you've written the answer, found the same info. Also, I downloaded the EMU SW but wasn't able to find any Info on that. However, I had the idea to sniff out the CAN bus coming from the selector and give the paddles the same data so that it will not matter if you shift gears from the paddles or via selector.
In the meantime I had another questions raising up:
On a stock bmw, what happens if the selector is in Auto mode but you still try to shift via paddles?
How does the torque reduction work mechanically since there is no signal sent to the ECU to reduce the ignition or injection? Is it mechanically reduced somehow?
Thanks!
BR
RoB
Re: Few questions about the TCU
If the selector is in automatic mode and you press the paddle, you will be in manual mode for a set time in tcu, after this time you will return to automatic mode.
The TCU sends a torque reducing signal. The previously mentioned configurable CAN frames can be used for this. In the case of EMU BLACK, we use just this. EMU CLASSIC cannot receive frames, but only sends. In this case, you can configure one of the "Analog Out 1-4" in the TCU to send a 0-5v signal and connect it to the "analog input" in EMU Classic and configure it.
The TCU is able to smoothly shift even without torque reduction and will not damage the gearbox up to around 500-600NM torque in the case of the 8hp70 gearbox. Above this Torque, characteristic "back thrusts" begin to be felt. Gear shifting without downshift will be faster if the car is to be used for sports
Everything is customizable and can be set to your liking.
The TCU sends a torque reducing signal. The previously mentioned configurable CAN frames can be used for this. In the case of EMU BLACK, we use just this. EMU CLASSIC cannot receive frames, but only sends. In this case, you can configure one of the "Analog Out 1-4" in the TCU to send a 0-5v signal and connect it to the "analog input" in EMU Classic and configure it.
The TCU is able to smoothly shift even without torque reduction and will not damage the gearbox up to around 500-600NM torque in the case of the 8hp70 gearbox. Above this Torque, characteristic "back thrusts" begin to be felt. Gear shifting without downshift will be faster if the car is to be used for sports
Everything is customizable and can be set to your liking.
Re: Few questions about the TCU
So if 0v = no cut and 5v = 100% cut, and the Torque Reduction Output Threshold is 85%, should we be tapering the ignition retard from 4.4v up to 5.0v?Jar wrote: 08 Apr 2022, 13:42
The TCU sends a torque reducing signal. The previously mentioned configurable CAN frames can be used for this. In the case of EMU BLACK, we use just this. EMU CLASSIC cannot receive frames, but only sends. In this case, you can configure one of the "Analog Out 1-4" in the TCU to send a 0-5v signal and connect it to the "analog input" in EMU Classic and configure it.